rogers head of office of national intelligence and head of nsa are both contemporaneous witnesses to each other's account of what the president did when he very inappropriately contacted them and asked them to not weigh in. if there does end up being obstruction of justice probe involving the white house you can expect director of national intelligence and mike rogers to be very, very important witnesses. that does it for us tonight. we will see you again tomorrow.

>> watching him pause for nine seconds, i felt like i could feel my molars to avoid -- to help himself figure out what to say there. >> i think he would suffer the most anxiety watching the pause today would be president donald trump. >> ding ding ding ding ding. >> thank you, lawrence. >> thank you very much, rachel. >> well, donald trump's choice of a criminal lawyer to help defend him in the russia investigation proves once again that the problem with the trump white house is donald trump. >> this is dangerously flirting with obstruction of justice. >> who hasn't he pressured to try and get rid of this russia investigation. >> that would be a nightmare scenario. >> it's not appropriate for me to comment publicly on any of that. >> this is just not the way an american president should act. >> i encountered and aware of

the interactions between russian officials and u.s. persons involved in the trump campaign. >> saying that he was concerned enough to want the fbi to follow up. >> because of known russian efforts to such individuals. >> putin called me a genius, that's good. i don't know if he's playing with me. we have to figure that out. donald trump's most self destructive tendency is his preference for choosing personal familiaritity over expertise and experience when hiring people. when hiring campaign staff and now administration staff, and so the two least experienced white house workers in history are now

the president's daughter and her husband. and the president did it again today when he chose a lawyer to represent him in all of the investigations of his campaign's connections to russia. the prident needs a lawyer who is experienced in running a defense team in an impeachment trial in the united states senate, nothing less. there is exactly one person alive who has done that, david kendall was the lead defense lawyer for president clinton in his impeachment trial in the senate and in the years of investigation by the special prosecutor during the clinton administration, did kendall also represented hillary clinton during the fbi's investigation of her use of e-mail at the state department. david kendall is an experienced washington lawyer who knows how to defend criminal cases. he knows how to represent people in congressional investigations. there are dozens of great

lawyers in washington who can do that sort of thing, lawyers who have extensive experience with all of that, but if you need a lawyer, as only donald trump does who has been the chief defense lawyer in the impeachment trial in the senate, that's david kendall and only david kendall. today president trump chose one of his long-time new york lawyers, mark kasowitz to represent him in all of the investigation in congress, fbi and special prosecutor are now conducting. mark kasowitz has zero experience in the ways of washington. he did defend donald trump in his last big losing case, trump university case. and he has allowed donald trump to waste money on completely frivolous lawsuits like the one he lost against timothy o'brien who wrote a biography of trump that insisted that he was not a billionaire. president trump needs a lawyer who lives and breathes

washington and instead he chose a lawyer who lives and breathes donald trump. this afternoon, the heads of the senate intelligence committee, republican richard burr and mark warner announced there are issuing two new subpoenas to compel president trump's michael flynn to turn over documents of his contacts with russian officials. michael flynn has claimed a fifth amendment right in response to the committees previous documents subpoena. but the fifth amendment does not protect most documents from subpoena. the committee retains the content charges against flynn for refusing him to respond to that original subpoena. now the committee leaders are directing these new subpoenas at flynn's businesses. >> we issued two subpoenas to michael flynn businesses that we're aware of. flynn intel llc and flynn intel inc. both located with a

specific list of documents. while we disagree with the lawyers and interpretation of taking the fifth, it's clear -- it is more clear that a business does not have a right to take fifth in its corporation. one has been served. one is in the process of being served and we keep all options on the table. >> and, as we just heard from rachel, today the director of national intelligence dan coats testified to the senate armed services committee where he was asked about a story in yesterday's washington post. yesterday the washington post reported, trump made separate appeals to the director of national intelligence daniel coats and to admiral michael s rogers, the director of the national security agency, urnling them to publicly deny the existence of any evidence of collusion during the 2016 election, coats and rogers refused to comply with the requests, which they both deemed to be appropriate accordg to two current and two form

officials. when asked about that in today's hearing, dan coats said this. >> i have always believed that given the nature of my position and the information in which we share, it's not appropriate for me to comment publicly on any of that so on this topic, as well as other topics, i don't feel it's appropriate to characterize discussions and conversations with the president. >> in yesterday's report, they added this, trump's conversation with rogers was documented and contemporaneously in an internal memo written by a senior nsa official according to the officials, it is unclear if a similar memo was prepared by the office of national intelligence to document trump's conversation with coats. officials said such memos could be made available to both the

special counsel now overseeing the russia investigation and congressional investigation who might explore whether trump sought to impede the fbi's work. former cia director john brennan testified before the house intelligence committee today. democratic castro asked him how the intelligence community came to the unanimous feel that russia was interfering in the election. >> how and why did all three agencies come to such a high degree of confidence about their assessment? >> i think that they rigorously interrogating the data very careful and deep discussions about what the data told them about their assessments and so, therefore, there was a unanimous consensus among the three agencies odni about the judgments. >> joining us now representative, democratic congressman from texas and member of the select committee

on intelligence. and also with us, a former house intelligence committee staff member. she's now a director of national security program at the third way. ned price, former spokesperson for national security counsel and former cia analyst. he's an msnbc national security analyst. i wanted to get your take away from the hearing with former director brennan today. >> well, i think one of the most important things that he revealed to the nation, and remember, the committee is on the senate side and house side have been hearing a lot of classified information, but it's important that the public get to hear from the key figures also. i think one of the most important things that former director brennan said is that he was concerned by contacts and interactions that members of the trump campaign had with russians, russians who may have interfered with our elections and so he was concerned enough that he forwarded that over to the fbi and they took it from there.

>> and in that -- in the developments in all of the different hearing venues, i want to get your assessment of what you're making of these subpoenas and the -- these, in effect, the double subpoenas that are going out to michael flynn, this time to his corporation and llc, there seems to be no conceivable legal ground to try to resist those subpoenas. >> i think that's right. what's interesting about it, because a corporation can't resist the subpoena, you can see all kind of organizations that are corporations being given the similar kind of document request and not being able to assert the fifth. plenty of people iwashington when they try to set up a consulting business use a corporate shell and that actually makes them more vulnerable to these requests. >> let's listen to senator blumenthal today asking coats

about this -- about this intervention that the president asked of coats and of rogers and how that happened. >> have you talked about this issue with admiral rogers? >> that is something that i would like to withhold that question at this particular point in time. >> i'm going to assume that in withholding the question, the implicit answer is that, yes, you have and i would like to know in another setting if necessary, what the substance of that conversation was. >> ned price, your interpretation of that. >> well, i think it's pretty

clear from the dni's lack of an answer that there was a consultation there. look, we've all been focused on the president's effort here, which i think we can agree is at the very least either potentially criminally ignorant or a criminal attempt to obstruct justice. but i think if there was a conversation between the dni and the nsa had admiral mike rogers, that could in and of itself be another attempt here on the part of these two officials to get their stories straight to make sure they're saying the right thing to further the storyline that this administration is so desperate to advance across all these fronts. >> let's listen tohat senator brand sa about when he cld describe these organizations. >> if you get called in front of the intelligence committee, will you share your conversations with president trump in that hearing, in that setting? >> well, as i mentioned to senator mccain in answer to his question, i do believe that the

information and discussions that i've had with the president are something that should not be disclosed. in other words, if i called before investigative committee, i certainly will provide them with what i know and what i don't know. >> congressman castro, that answer seems to provide exactly the rationale you're looking for about why you need these congressional hearings. >> that's absolutely right. each time we've had one of these open hearings, something new is revealed to the american people. and, really, if the media reports over the last few weeks are true about the president and why he fired james comey, well, that one we know is pretty much true he said on twitter and made comment about it that he was thinking about the russia investigation. if the reports about him asking

jim comey to let go of the michael flynn issue and then, of course this idea that he may have asked coats and rogers to claim that there was no conclusion, the case for obstruction of justice against the president of the united states keeps growing stronger and stronger literally almost by the day. >> and there are reports in the washington post that white house staff, in dition to the president, were making similar efforts to get similar -- to get these kind of statements out of the cia and so forth. will you expect that to take place more at the staff level. >> i think you would, staff will call what are you going to say in preparation of this hearing. that's a fairly normal government function. to get them say things that weren't true or exonerate the president or things where the facts don't support it yet, that's not really okay. >> can i just say, what i'm

worrying about, do you think it would be staff, then, at the agencies who would know about the white house staff interventions? meaning, their phone calls or their interventions might not be directly to the director, it might have required a couple of staff steps along the way, there by, widening the possible list of witnesses who would know about this. >> i think that's right and what you also see is the principles t cabinet officials talk to their staffs because they asked their advice and those conversations are not protected by executive privilege, just like a conversation between rogers and coats isn't protected by executive privilege. you do have more ability to figure out what's going on and what they're saying to each other than just talking to coats and to rogers. ned price, who in the white house can pick up the phone and get the director on the phone? >> get the director -- the nsa director, you mean? >> yeah. >> well, typically, that is

something that was handled in channels belonging to th national security counsel. there would not -- it would certainly not be routine for the president of the united states to be meeting one on one or to have one on one discussions with the director of the national security agency or either the dni, for that matter, or certainly not the director of fbi that president trump asked everyone else to leave the room when he asked director comey to drop the mike flynn matter. there use to be an invaluable wall between the white house and law enforcement and other independent -- and quasi independent. this administration seems to be chipping away at that wall and that wall is disappearing before our eyes every single day. >> castro, how much coordination is there among the committees that are involved in this investigation and are you

planning -- or do you have a plan to deal with the special prosecutor's presence now and how that might limit or change your investigation? >> well to your second question first, because special counsel was set up so recently, we really haven't had a chance to fully sort out how the two are going to coexist. but those of us at congress believe that we can coexist, the committees can with the special counsel we can go about our fact finding mission and still obviously perform an important function for the congress an the american people. and then, you know, with respect to the other issues, we're just going to continue to do our full investigation. we need to get to the bottom, most of all, of whether any americans have coordinated or conspired with the russians who interfered with our 2016 elections. congressman, do you think there's any possibility of at some point there being a joint committee of house and senate

joining together so that some of these witnesses who are saying i would like to testify once could actually testify in effect to both the house and the senate committee at the same time? >> well, you know, most of us, at least on the democratic side, i think all of us have called for independent commission separate from congress. that obviously has not happened. there was some talk early on about a possible select committee that would include members of the senate and members of the house. at this point, i think, we're probably stuck with two committees to do this investigation, you're right, jim comey, for example, has gone now at least a few times to the senate and the house in closed and open hearings. right now it looks like that's going to say. >> it turns out that the lawyer that donald trump has decided to hire to represent him on all of this is a partner with joe lieberman in that law firm, that would represent a conflict of

interest for joe lib erman if the president tried to choose him as fbi director, so it seems as though the choice of his personal defense lawyer may rule out joe lieberman. >> it's possible, what you saw is like new special counsel, former fbi director, he was part of the law fthat represents ivanka trump and he quits that law firm. you would have to have him either quit the firm or trump's lawyer leave the firm to try and avoid that conflict, unclear whether or not they'll pick lieberman here. the choice of this guy from new york who doesn't know washington or any of the procedural rules, shows trump picking loyalty over effectiveness, yet again. >> and just quickly before we go, have you seen, in your experience in dealing in congressional committees, when the new york lawyer comes in as oppose today the washington lawyer who really knows how it all works? >> yeah, you see a real

difference with folks who know how to handle these things and who can really smooth things out with committee chairs in advance when they know the hearing is going to be contentious and avoid bad optics for their clients and can negotiate certain things like the way the information is released that other folks can come barrelling in and make the whole situation worse. >> thank you all for joining us tonight. we really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> thank you. coming up, cia director during the 2016 presidential campaign says publicly for the first time that he had concerns about the trump campaign's contacts with russia and he alerted paul ryan and the congressional leadership about it earlier than we realid. and coming up, why elizabeth warren is very concerned about the trump/russia investigations in congress. elizabeth warren will join us. ♪

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>> i think criminal investigation is valuable as general flynn might be to counter intelligence investigation, we don't believe that it's our place today to alter him immunity from this committee. there's nothing more important to me than my vacation. so when i need to book a hotel room, i want someone that makes it easy to find what i want. booking.com gets it.

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election last summer. tonight on fox, speaker paul ryan was asked if republicans backed the president 100% attitude towards the investigations of russian influence in the election. >> i'm not hearing 100% -- >> i'm not going to rejudge, you asked me to prejudge the conclusions, i have no idea what they're going to produce they're getting started. i'm not going to prejudge where this independent investigation is goi to gohere it follows its facts. >> today former cia director brennan talked about how the russian govement developed u.s. sources. >> i know what the russians try to do, they try to get individuals, including u.s. persons to act on their behalf, either wittingly or unwittingly. >> and here is what brennan was able to say publicly about

russian interference in the election. >> i encountered and am aware of information intelligence that revealed contacts and interactions between russian officials and u.s. persons involved in the trump campaign. i was concerned about because of known russian efforts to -- such individuals and it raised questions, in my mind, again, whether or not the russians were able to gain the cooperation of other individuals. i don't know whether or not such collusion and that's your term, such "collusion" existed. but i know there was a sufficient basis of information and intelligence that required further investigation by the bureau to determine whether or not u.s. persons were actively conspiring, colluding with russian officials. >> joining us now, former acting

director of the ci a&m snbc national security analyst. i wanted to get your view of what former director brennan was saying today about this question of collusion. what was your interpretation of that? >> i think what director brennan was saying here is that he saw contacts taking place between russians or people representing russians and members of the trump ent rauj. he couldn't go as far to say it occurred. he knows the context in which these things happen. when he uses the word sub borne, what he's referring to is russian practice, an intelligence practice, actually, of seeking to draw people into some compromising situation short of recruiting them, short of actually colluding with them, but moving them along a path

toward a closer relationship. and he suspected, without knowing, as he said and when he left office, there were many unresolved questions in his mind. and i think that's the heart of what he was trying to tell people. >> i want to go to exchange here between congressman goudy and former director brennan. it seems that some republicans, certainly the president and possibly congressman believed that if you can say i haven't found any evidence of collusion, then this whole case should be closed. let's listen, first of all, to this exchange. >> did you see evidence of collusion, coordination, conspiracy between donald trump and russian state actors? >> i saw information intelligence that was worthy of investigation by the bureau to determine whether or not such cooperation collusion was taking place. >> and that would have been

directly between the candidate and russian state actors. >> that's not what i said. >> but that was my question and you answered it. you answered it. you didn't answer it that way. >> i responded to kwery. i'm not going to respond to particular elements of your question because i think it would be inappropriate to do so here. >> so the point that he was trying to get there, it sounded like he was trying to get a no on the matter of donald trump himself having any contact with russian state actors but director brennan refused to get to that level of specificity. >> you know, i think the congressman was engaging a little partisan by play there and director brennan clearly recognized it and i think -- congressman is looking at this through kind of a black and white lens. the former cia director is looking at it through the eyes of a professional intelligence officer. when you're going after a

source, there's a cycle that you follow. you spot a source, you assess the source, you develop a source, meaning you build a relationship with them and at some point down the road you recruit them and draw them in to relationship. i think what director brennan was saying, he couldn't tell where they were in this cycle, it might have been simply assessing and developing or getting to know and trying to lay the predicate for a deeper relationship. so he was giving, really, a more subtle and sophisticated portrayal of what happened here. and i think the congressman was trying to drive him into a typical yes/no situation which is something that i think director brennan was resisting, appropately. >> director brennan talked about his direct contact with his russian counterpart and saying that there would be consequences. russia would pay a price for this interference if they needed to stop it and -- there's a

point about this today that was made by congressman eric -- >> something that was so chilling to hear is that he given a warning to russia to stop its meddling, otherwise, they would suffer consequences, he said and then to look just back about a week and a half ago on may 10th when donald trump -- russian's foreign minister and ambassador of the united states that certainly did not look like any consequences were suffered. the warning that the director gave and the way that russia is being embraced it's very disturbing. >> and we don't see now in this administration any consequences at all to the russian interference in the election. it has not indicated with what russian to russia, certainly.

>> no, in fact, the first thing you would hope they would do would be to acknowledge the truth the intelligence community said with high confidence on january 6th that they did interference in the election and that seems to be admitted by the president only grudgingly. it's very interesting to me that the director of -- director brennan raised this directly with the fsb director, that's their internal intelligence service, he did that back in august. it's a couple of months later in october that the director of national intelligence puts out the first statement indicating that russia has interfered in our election, so there was a fairly steady drum beat here that was being given to everyone involved that russia was interfering. >> john, thank you very much for joining us again tonight. really appreciate it. >> thank you, lawrence. coming up, massachusetts

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dead on arrival. today president budget director described as compassionate massive cuts to medicaid and other elements of the social

safety net, this is the way he described it. >> we're no longer going to measure compassion by the number or the number of people on all those programs or by the number of people we help to get off of those programs. we're not going to measure compassion by the amount of money that we spend by the number of people that we help. >> or by the number of people you abandon. yesterday, i asked massachusetts senior senator warren about this new republican brand of compassion as expressed in the trump budget and how she believes the russia investigation will impact this kind of trump legislative agenda. >> it appears that their view of compassion is that we make sure that we can knock 24 million people off health coverage that we take the legs out from underneath medicaid which one of the principle users are seniors

who are in nursing homes who otherwise have no alternatives and no way to pay for nursing home care. and that somehow he thinks he's going to get in front of that with a statement about compassion. this really is. this is just -- this is beyond farce. look at things like -- what they want to do to education that betsy and donald trump now propose about an $11 billion cut to public education and among the programs that they just want to cut out any federal help for are things like ap classes, foreign languages, physical education, even support for the special olympics that they just think, no, let's just see where all of those are at. for young people who are trying to go to college, they want to take the whole forgiveness

program that's there for people who have decide today go into public service who said i'm going to work for a lower paying job in public service and we'll do a little loan help you pay the college debt on it. -- take good programs and help students get into college and make it through college you might have had a chance, zeroed that program out, increase the cost of student loans for low income students. it's like one puncin the fac after another to hardworking people, to people who are trying to make something of their lives. if these guys really did believe an opportunity, if these guys did believe and help build their own future, they'll be doubling the funding and try not to take from underneath it. let's be clear, they want to

yell and slash and burn in these programs, the reason for that they can produce tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires. look at this so-called health care plan. it's a tax cut plan, 24 million people off health care. raise cost for middle class families, open the door to discrimination against people with pre-existing conditions and people with mental health issues and people with opioid addiction problems, do all of that for what reason, in order to produce a tax break for a handful of millionaires and billionaires. donald trump is making it clear who he wants to run this government for on steroids and the answer is, for the rich and powerful and kick everybody else in the teeth. that's what this is all about. >> what is the effect of all of

thisussian influence scandal in terms of the trumagenda in congress. is it creating a legislative smoke screen where this unpopular agenda has a better chance of advancing or is it just gumming up the works and nothing has a real chance of advancing. >> i'm actually very concerned. keep in mind, the house went ahead and passed this horrible health care bill, moved it over to the senate and right now behind closed doors. the republicans in the united states senate are what kind of a health care bill can they get out and then spring on the american people and see if they can ram it through. the four people actually understand what's in it and really push back on it. that's where they are right now and we all have to be on alert. that's all happening while all of the russia stuff continues to go forward. now we've got russia and health

care and we've got the budget rolling in, the republicans in washington are still advancing the trump agenda more so than ever. >> coming up, what elizabeth warren says about this. elizabeth warren will get tonight's last word. before we hit the beach,

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same guest book this morning that donald trump wrote into that guest book this morning. it is a great honor to be here with all of my friends, so amazing, will never forget. it sounds like a note written on a spring break. it could have been a casino opening where he wrote that note. there's solutelyo trace in donald trump's trace of any understanding of where he was. in his column entitled the ang of trump is defining deviant si down, when worse and worse behavior comes to be accepted as the norm. in his piece he makes the important point that the president cannot do this alone. it is not the president's alone who is defining deviant down it's also how people react to his actions.

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the entire thing has been a witch-hunt, and there is no collusion between certainly myself and my campaign. but i can always speak for myself, and the russians, zero. i think it divides the country. >> joining us now, al hunt, columnist at bloomberg, and the host of bloomberg tv's political capital. al, i think all of us who remember the moynihan essay defining deviancy down are thinking about it every day with donald trump as a candidate, now as president. i know senator moynihan would want me to point out that it was not all original thinking in that paes piece. he credits emile durkheim's 1895 text the rules of social longical method as inspiring him. i wanted to get that credit out of the way.

the point you made that none of the rest of us have made is that donald trump cannot do this alone. i would like you to expand on that. >> yea i dn't cor durkheim. it is amazing -- it's remarkable how relevant moynihan is 16 1/2 years after he left public office. that -- as you say, it was an american social logic klg view, i think, defining deviancy he said simply when you accept as norm behavior that is unacceptable, you deviancy down. you heard us all. i think that is what is has happened with the trump presidency. i think the way he is analyzed sometimes there has been great coverage of trump. i think when you accept is it right or not right when he makes baseless allegations about barack obama wiretapping him or widespread voter fraud or some of the other things he says, that doesn't require fair and balanced because there is nothing balanced about it.

by the same token when he gives a speech to a joint session of congress, february 28th. he was perfectly fine, didn't insult anyone. he read the script quite well. he paid homage to a gold star widow. but it was a speech not to remember anything he said, when the time where trivial issues were over and people gushed like it was president lynchon or fd rurks up there. i think that's wrong. >> when you define deviancy down as donald trump has when he floats up to something close to the norm he ends up getting a big rave review of positive overreaction. >> yeah, you could see it in that trip to saudi arabia and israel. did he fine. he only made one real mistake. but he was basically fine. i was reading a piece about what a brilliant trip it was and what a great job jared kushner did setting it up. the saudis and the israelis couldn't wait for him to come.

it was an absolute slam-dunk. he didn't make any mistakes. i wish he will have put pressure on the saudis and their dreadful record on human rights and democrat creates. but that's okay. it wasn't jack kennedy in berlin or eisenhower in korea. it was a perfectly normal presidential trip. >> al, there is more than one track in the news media kumping donald trump now. we see amazing stories coming out of "new york times," the "washington post" every day, which is great investigative journalism, with great sourcing. >> yeah. >> and then there is the whole reacting, the kind of op ed section of all of this on television and elsewhere where people react to trump. and that's where the normalizing becomes a bit of a risk. how do -- but the other side of it is how do you express the proper level of outrage to the deviant choices that donald

trump makes as president when he makes them relentlessly and it's hard to strike the note of outrage to everything. >> well, sometimes it's not easy at all. big argument among some newspaper editors do he they use the term "lying" or not. i don't think that's the relevant question here. what it is though is that you keep at it. you keep at it. when donald trump would repeatedly say i never made fun of a reporter th disabilities during the campaign, well, h actually did, it's on tape. every time he says, that you say yes, you did. sometimes in journalism we get a little bit hesitant about that, it looks like it is a drum beat. but i agree with you, there has been some great reporting. as an aside, let me tell you because we are -- you worked for daniel patrick moynihan and i covered him and thought he was one of the great people of all times. it's one of the times i regret tim russert is not here. can you imagine what he could have done in covering the insights on this president? >> al, i missed him every day of

the 2016 campaign. i wanted to see tim russert do the trump interview. that would have been something we would still be talking about. >> we would. >> thank you for joining us. >> thank you lawrence. coming up, elizabeth warn gets the last word.

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i want someone that makes it easy to find what i want. booking.com gets it. they offer free cancellation if my plans change. visit booking.com. booking.yeah. just so you understand, i never mentioned the word or the name israel. never mentioned it during that conversation. so you had to know the story wrong. never mentioned the word israel. >> that was the mistake that al hunt was just talking about. that was president trump in israel yesterday basically confirming in his own special way that he leaked israeli intelligence to the russian foreign minister and the russian ambassador in the oval office. here's senator elizabeth warren's initial reaction to that. >> first of all, donald trump reveals these secrets to the russians, and then turns around and says, and i didn't point out that the information came from

you. i never said that. you know, and the question then becomes how do we protect ourselves from our own president? how do we protect ourselves from our own president? how do we protect intelligence? how do we protect our allies? since donald trump seems determined to think of no one except donald trump. first, last, and every moment in between. elizabeth warren gets tonight's last word. you can see our entire interview with elizabeth warren on our website. "the 11th hour" with brian williams starts now. tonight, the president is apparently lawyering up. donald trump expected to retain a private attorney to represent him in the russia investigation. also, the cia's concerns. the former director shares his